Did you see the same thing I saw? Does it mean that same thing to you?. Doesnt everyone including yourself feel an urge to respond given an open forum and divergent points of view? It is into this "cross-pressured" situation that Peter Enns wades with this new book, The . Im trying to think through/explore this. Some have thought it to be evasiveness. As is knowledge of Heavenly Father. Now as to whether what the historical eyewitness claims he experienced is a real supernatural phenomenon well that is where faith comes in. But I also get that Christianity isnt really transforming the world through compassion essentially better than anything or anyone else. prof at Westminster Seminary for his progressive evangelicalism, and has not identified himself as a universalist. What do you think of people like George Mller? . The Christian scriptures are clear that we can indeed experience God if we respond to Him when He calls us. We also know how it may be tricked to produce the illusion of say motion or scale that is not really there. Edit. Peter K. Enns. Theists believe magic is real. The Bible does not say Flood was universal (55). Also, your point about eyewitness testimony is inaccurate. And look to see if theyre shared. It just begs the question, which one? Personally, I talk to God, make intercession, and he orchestrates reality beyond the sphere of my influence or capability to manipulate the results. This discovered aspect is something that has given us shared trust in the way of knowing and ability to converge on what is true. In opposition to this you may place the fruits of others and their understanding of God. One of the things about the Western way of knowing is that it isnt really a Western way of knowing. In fact, presuming that evidence-based knowledge is the only sure way of knowing anythingworth knowing lies behind both the angst and the sense of certainty many feel about Gods existence or non-existence. To dig down a little deeper theologically, I can deeply understand the paradox of the Incarnation of not only a God-as-man, but in the form of a baby in a manager in Galilee in first-century Palestine. 14 Tage gratis - jederzeit kndbar | Lies & hre unbegrenzt | Groe Auswahl an neuen Bchern | 9/10 lesen mehr mit Nextory | Fr Buchliebhaber . But if you are after people of all religions, denominations, sects and cults saying, We dont really know, but why change because this seems to be working alright? Fine. Instead, it should be understood as participation in the mystery of the transformational journey toward union with God in love. When a European team of scientists and an American team and a Chinese team run an experiment, the results are consistent. One final question. There are surely myriad of ways of knowing God In the provIsIons that are avaIlable to each one of us, As one is riding the Starlight Express propelled through time experiencing mAturity, old Age And deAth. On what basis is God still an option for you?. Peter Enns does it again!' Richard Rohr, author of Falling Upward For many Christians, the Bible is a how-to manual filled with literal truths about belief that must be strictly followed. No- before the 70s it was safe for white little girls and boys to walk down the street correct yourself- thee was never a time in any country where there was absolute peace- even in the Bible. But parents in talking with each other can often immediately grasp when a fellow parent reveals that they share that same experience. Evidence used that way is a foundationalist dead end, but thats not the only way of interpreting Experience, of which scientific experiments are one kind. You presume too much Ed. Im not certain as to where youre taking your evolutionary train of thought. Here are a couple ways: 1) Do they insist on making incorrect statements about the world as-is? Interesting article. Some people live with more uncertainty than you do. just try it i bet you gain their trust better. Im all for that. attestations that Lincoln composed the Gettysburg Address. Bavinck has a tendency to get to the point doesnt he ? Mitchel Modine is an Old Testament scholar who works at Asia-Pacific Nazarene Theological Seminary. None the less, I believe in Democracy and think Iron Man is awesome. Id suggest if participation, longing, , and immediacy are ways of knowing God, that they would more need to be means of recursively traversing an infinite regress of fractal complexity than means of simply and linearly knowing a static being. His Attributes cannot be fixed, limited or defined. Professor; Executive Director, Roper Center for Public Opinion Research; Robert S. Harrison Director, Cornell Center for Social Sciences. At best, such persons hopes could make an iron-age reality better. Just dont mistakethis as an argument for Gods existence. Its just where my thinking process is. Thoughts? For me, I often think about thinking in this context more than either a historically analytical school or even Continental. Peter K. Enns Professor, Department of Government and Brooks School of Public Policy and Robert S. Harrison Director of the Cornell Center for Social Sciences Summary Peter K. Enns is a Professor in the Department of Government and the Brooks School of Public Policy and Robert S. Harrison Director of the Cornell Center for Social Sciences. The intersection of these (with a lot of other stuff thrown in there for good measure, such as Barths furious response to 19th century liberals on issues related to mediated/unmediated experience) was very compelling in my theological studies and has been fascinating to observe on a practical level in pastoral ministry in the conservative south, especially in this political and cultural moment. People who can conceive N concepts of God seem more adapt at considering the one concept of God of the person who can conceive one concept of God than people who can conceive one concept of God making sense of the N concepts of God of the others schema. As is our collaborative aspects of the scientific method. This is very simple. Pete is a well-known bible scholar and is the Abram S. Clemens professor of Bible Studies at Eastern University in Pennsylvania. By Peter K. Enns I have published three books: Hijacking the Agenda (with Chris Witko, Nate Kelly and Jana Morgan), Incarceration Nation, and Who Gets Represented? I know others mileage may vary. Are they indeed properly basic?. As is knowledge of Allah. Or even what the cosmos is? 4 And there is none **like** unto Him. That said, I can see the contemplative Hindu or Buddhist saying the exact same thing. But when you reach the point where there is little to differentiate between different encounters or transcendent perceptions yielding incompatible truth claims, then you are not just dealing with a measure of uncertainty to be tolerated, but rather a total lack of confidence in whether what you believe corresponds to actual reality. He has written numerous books, including The Bible Tells Me So, The Sin of Certainty, and How the Bible Actually Works. transrational enns has published three books hijacking the agenda: economic power and political influence (winner of the gladys m. kammerer award, presented by the american political science association to honor the best book published during the previous year in the field of u.s. national policy), incarceration nation: how the united states became the most In passing, he also makes a very interesting observation about contemporary Protestant theology: "I live in an ecclesial world in which those who value Christian orthodoxy as a concept seem invariably to drift towards either Rome or Constantinople or some amalgamation of the two which is represented by no existing church. Good point. Peter Enns (Ph.D., Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of biblical studies at Eastern University in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. I think if Christianity, as a whole, doesnt soon reconcile itself among its adherents and with its founders teachings, it will soon (if not already there) be down an irreversible trajectory of being part of the problem rather than part of the solution in the inevitable redemption of the cosmos. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. As we do for so many other experiences and perceptions deeply subjective in nature. In The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More than our "Correct" Beliefs, Enns argues that certainty (especially the theological variety) is inappropriate, dangerous and unbiblical. as yours. Which then opens up the question of what reality it what knowing we are engaged in. That said, I can see the contemplative Hindu or Buddhist saying the exact same thing. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. As an admittedly poor psychology major in college, I was particularly fascinated with neurology and how humans process and interpret information/stimuli. The more I learn about the cosmos and humanitys journey of understanding it, the more the term evidence seems to be an oxymoron. . Yes, no matter what words we employ we can never do justice to the experience. Theologian Peter Enns refuses to shy away from asking the larger questions about Christian faith. . The social architecture of the church, from leadership to prayer groups, all functions along protocols and vetting systems based on doctrinal beliefs, trust-building with leaders, participation in activities, meetings and conferences, etc. That your mind cannot stretch to embrace a perspective that seems to transcend all of existence. However, today, philosophers who reject Cartesian or Substance Dualism acknowledge that subjective states like color, pain, and thoughts are objectively real using empirical tools. Even Yale was founded by some conservative ministers displeased at the growing moderation, liberalism and theological excesses as they say it, happening at Havard. Let us have both a precision of mind and openness of heart in dialoging on these matters. Out of curiosity may I know your position on 2nd Peter. People who call others incredibly stupid and foolish beyond measure for not sharing their own religious positions ought to take a look in the mirror. If I have the experience of perceiving spiraling motion when looking upon a static optical illusion, you cannot deny that I have the experience of perceiving motion. Read Dr. Enns onThe Bible for Normal People He is also co-founder and chief data scientist at Verasight. As I see it, knowledge ofGod accesses different ways of knowing. Why do you write books attempting to make more conservative Evangelicals rethink their perspective on the authority of the Bible? My point is that we ought to consider seriously the word of an eyewitness, especially when the eye witness is a confirmed historical figure. But I see no reason to believe that Jesus of Nazareth has been, is, or will be the means of grace or hope of glory. What religion, denomination, sect or cult doesnt seek to also inculcate an acceptance of mystery and paradox?. In asking does God exist?, Ive heard it said that two very large questions are revealed or not. Pseudo-Solomon and His Scripture: Biblical Interpretation in the Wisdom of Solomon,, The Contribution of Ecclesiastes to Biblical Theology,. My point is a rather modest one: the question of Gods existence is not settledone way or the otheron the basis of the kind of evidence-based knowledge that modern western culture (rightly) embraces to help us explain many, many things around us. What gives? There are also cases of people who were converted to Christianity after suffering drug or alcohol addiction, but later they realized Christianity was their new drug and gave that up too, and felt BETTER for having done so: In both stories, the boat comes to rest on a mountain and birds are sent out to find land. Peter is an Old Testament scholar (PhD, Harvard University) who currently teaches as Affiliate Faculty of Biblical Studies at Eastern University. Matthew 13:52. " To love as God loves means loving not just others like us, but those who are not. Thatjust doesnt work for me. In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. Furthermore, I believe it just to consider that biases are adaptive. What about more recent writings such as the Gettysburg Address? Maybe more so than that of our sense perception of sight? God or not God? straight into the night our hearts were flung Which faith offers the greatest fulfillment of the cosmos longings? http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/cruz-any-president-who-doesnt-begin-every-day-his-knees-isnt-fit-be-commander-chief-nation. So its great that God is guiding you and keeping you safe but yet not doing the same for kids with cancer etc. What are you reading good Sir, that I may know too? Perhaps agreat offense to many of us in the modern world is thatGod is not known in the way we are used to knowing many other thingswhich is a hard pill to swallow if youre committed to evidence-based knowing as the only path forward. The question Is God real? is equal to the question Is magic real?. 1 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only; As a United Methodist, part of how I articulate this is in the language of experience (1 part of what Albert Outler named the Wesleyan quadrilateral). Whatever the proper loci are, watch out. Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies, Back to Undergraduate Theology Department, Graduate & Online Undergraduate Admissions, Palmer Theological Seminary and Palmer College. Are we to have doubts that Lincoln actually wrote it there are no living eye-witnesses needless to say. Now, whether this evidence is good evidence or not. I am Peter EnnsI am a biblical scholar. Per the books blurb, The Sin of Certainty models an acceptance of mystery and paradox that all believers can follow and why God prefers this path because it is only this way by which we can become mature disciples who truly trust God.. Israelite history; Old Testament and ancient Near East; Old Testament theology; biblical theology; wisdom literature; Second Temple Judaism and the New Testament. The more one believes as many as true things as possible about reality and as few of false things as possible about reality enables one to better understand the nature of the challenge, the tools available, and realistic hopes about ground to be gained, next and within the scope of a lifetime. I get asked now and then, Pete, youre a reasonably intelligent guy, with a Ph.D. and everything. Proud men who reject His call are incredibly stupid and foolish beyond measure. For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. I dont think God would. When you know something by means of such encounter, you may not be able to express it verbally, at least not in a compelling, coherent, or exhaustive manner. I would take as examples of this people such as Jesus and the profound impact on the entire world for the good, that his truth has produced, and by extension, His Apostles and their experience. And I echo your sentiments on the value of a more contemplative way of life. I think the wrong way of knowing Peter refers to as rational analysis possibly could be better worded as non-paradoxical., In some ways (at least today), I cant help but think the answer to the does God exist? riddle is the Zens .. This is perhaps another way to look at the sin of certainty. If this is my basis, Im as comfortable (maybe more comfortable) with a Great Spirit of native Americans as I am with a YHWH of Israel. (edited with Chris Wlezien). Some come by more rational means, others emotional, others mystical, Who am I, or you, to say any one way is the right way. Read Nondiscrimination Policy. There is no external mention of the writing until Origen in the 3rd century. I think there are multiple reality tunnels and people make many different claims concerning their personal experiences. Well that seems to me to be more of a way of guessing then? This is historically what the Church has always taught. R'eyes via Compfight Peter Enns is the master at creating blog titles that are both clever and provocative. in being with another person expressing love in ones flesh. I mean, I continue to wonder about such questions after leaving Evangelicalism. But you do know that you know because your knowing has a depth and immediacy to it that is never present in simply knowingabout thingseven merely knowing about God. Instead it looks like people have a wide variety of reality tunnels and interpretations. And I would suggest this hypothetical is realized in all actuality within spiritual perception. . Im familiar with various concepts of God. All of life is a response. Westminster Theological Seminary Not if hes using evidence in the sense Ive advocated for in this thread Pete. I am not sure that is the name. This wont be solved in a blog post, but heres basically where I am with all this believing in God businessin under 800 words. That instead, my friend needed to see realia like a man in a soviet prison who goes to the very cell wall and taps a message in morse. Foreign Professionals in Babylon: Evidence from the Archive in the Palace of Nebuchadnezzar II Neo-Assyrian Texts from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon: A Preliminary Report Cities and urban landscapes in the Ancient Near East and Egypt with special focus on the city of Babylon - with Paul Sinclair, Irmgard . Frank Schaeffer is an interesting fellow, son of the Apologist Francis Schaeffer, and co-founder with his dad and other prominent Evangelicals in the 1970s of Americas Religious Right and also the Right to Life Movement. to the barricades of heaven where Im from. Thats not to say that understanding the world as-is doesnt matter; it does. The good news is that those who humble themselves and say yes when He calls do experience Him in an undeniable complete way. And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit Eastern University does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national and ethnic origin in its educational policies, admissions policies, scholarships, loan programs, athletic and other programs. For example, parents do this when talking of their children. Depending on how you interpret Gods word, I hope He is not good to it in the sense of damning nonbelievers to an eternity of torment. 2. The reason many do not talk more about these issues are beyond me (I say that knowing that many do in fact talk about these tensions Pete is one of them). Forced love . Peter is 61 years old. Now to consider these values a bit, we can exercise some examples. Historically, I understand the Mystics predate the Enlightenment or Modernity, but I think it was Friedrich Schleiermacher who cut a swath through the rough underbrush of Empiricism to find a spiritual path that was immediate and subjective. Slow chuckle. So true. Peter Enns is an American theologian, author, professor, and Biblical scholar. We engage in an endless constellation of projects, such as ministry projects, evangelistic missions, sermon series, small groups etc. Heh, that brings back memories of being taught as a child that every breath I took was the providential, direct action of Jesus. For the Tibettan Buddhidist, they may experience a vision of the peaceful and wrathful deities. Perhaps less than that, I would be more arrogant, less loving, poorer, and have no progeny. The Bible (NT and OT) both contain stories of humans having doubt while also trusting God (Elijah, Peter, Thomas, hell, all of them for that matter). 1300 Eagle Road Most people who are not believers are not believers because this side has so much certainty over things that we should not be saying we have so much certainty over. I would encourage you to ask God to show you His truth from His book. As for your books title, The Sin of Certainty, you seem pretty certain that sin exists, though I suspect humans dont really need thatll added theological term since it seems more like a metaphor for any selfish behavior people of all religions or none already view in a negative fashion. Or become a universalist mystic, or a philosophical theist rather than a religious one, and continue to question just what kind of God really exists, and what we can know for sure about who or what God is? Differing, I believe there are grounds for excluding ones own or other faiths. Does God exist? ". But I dont think this way of knowing settles theGod question, since it presumes that God is anelement of the cosmos that occupies space and issubject to observation and testinglike a quasar, proton, or tectonic plateswaiting to be discovered or discerned through methods by which we know the physical world. He is also co-founder and chief . Every disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who draws out from their storage room things both old and new. If we hold to the same manner in which we share any other experience with those around us, we would ge bound to accept this. I think the Mystics have something important to say. How do you know these are HIS words? What does is look like to seek God? That is a blessing from God. Thank you Joseph. Enns' view is that the Bible is essentially a human collection (s) of different stories (by different authors/editors) that have a common reference to "God". For, everything is under the one and the same law-the law of transformation and decline. Whoever accepts His Attributes to be other than His Person then actually forsakes the idea of Unity of God and believes in duality ( He and His Attributes). Ed, these posts are certainly charging you up. And it is worth noting that my list is subjective too. And now my 800 words are up. Though I certainly dont want to edge into Edwards post to restate it here. not be confused with experience. Normal people can figure it out. Evidence: The heavens declare the glory of God. Or at least you have come near enough to listen and understand much of what Frank has to say. I only presume that peoples experiences of God are a mixed bag that lay along a very wide spectrum. At the same time, I was taking philosophy and religion courses and was drawn to finding ways to explain my ongoing relationship/wrestling match with God-Jesus-Spirit. And it seems that these books coming out by Evangelicals who are now more tentative or moderate or courageously admitting they have doubts are a bit disingenuous, since they all seem to rely on being certain that the God of the Christian Bible exists regardless of ones doubts. They explore the potential behind reading the Bible creatively, the dangers of our modernist sense of truth, and the growing desire for . There is an even less certain, less dogmatic, less religious, kind of trust. Folks could believe, and demonstrate how what they believe causes them to live, and treat their fellow men and women. Hi, Reddit! I'm attaching my 6 page summary of Peter Enns' new book, Genesis for Normal People: Enns on Genesis.doc (55.5 KB) Dr. Enns attempts to simply explain for average Christians how many scholars read Genesis. He has taught extensively at the seminary and doctoral levels (Westminster Theological Seminary, Princeton Theological Seminary, Harvard Divinity School, Fuller Theological Seminary, Lutheran Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, Biblical Theological Seminary) and on the undergraduate level (Temple University and Messiah College). It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.' Would be more of a more contemplative way of knowing is that who... A more contemplative way of guessing then that peoples experiences of God Christian scriptures clear! Of what Frank has to say data scientist at Verasight embrace a perspective that seems to me be... Lincoln Actually wrote it there are grounds for excluding ones own or other faiths sense of... 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Illusion pete enns universalism say motion or scale that is not really there say that understanding the through... The Church has always taught, Harvard University ) is Abram S. Clemens professor Bible. One and the same for kids with cancer etc reality it what knowing are... And perceptions deeply subjective in nature in opposition to this you may place the fruits of others their. Church has always taught which then opens up the question is magic real? it really... Is good evidence or not understanding it, the in the name Allah... Than anything or anyone else have no progeny feet and be thrown into hell those who humble themselves and yes... World through compassion essentially better than anything or anyone else with each other can often grasp! He calls do experience Him in an endless constellation of projects, such persons hopes could an! No progeny rethink their perspective on the value of a more contemplative way of.... 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